Curse

sigried · Mar 02, 2006, 10:10 PM // 22:10

I have this question of my own can i build a minion master with a necro ranger wich is the one i curently use.

Apple · Mar 02, 2006, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Look at this post

sigried · Mar 02, 2006, 10:18 PM // 22:18

So to run minions i needa N/R but do you havea build for this or i got the wrong idea from the link

byteme! · Mar 03, 2006, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by [Apple]

Look at this post

You gave him a link to ONE post that gave a positive remark about N/R. What about the rest of that thread? If I recall the majority of that thread favored N/MO and yet you gave him the link to ONLY that post? That's ridiculous. Infact I'd take that with a grain of salt. He wanted help with his skillsets (which that post only partially helped) not someone's biased opinion.

Cerberus · Mar 03, 2006, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Running a minion master myself i find N/Mo the best combination for 1 very important reason, Keeping my minions alive for aslong as possible This enables me to create quite a large minion force sometimes 20+ minions at ne 1 time which ne group will tell u makes ne battle so much easier.

The build i use is as follows and is probably very standard for a minion master...

Attributes

Death 12 + sup rune + scar = 16 ( gives lvl 18 minions )
Soul Reap 8 + major rune = 10 ( gives u 10 energy everytime something dies )
Healing 10 ( gives u 130 points of healing )

Armor

Head - Vile scar death +1
Chest - Scar
Arms - Scar
Legs - Scar
Feet - Bloodstained Boots ( casting speed of spells that target corpses is reduced by 25% )

Equipment

Truncheon with +15 energy always ( just use it for the energy boost, the -1 regen isn't missed as u'll get plenty of energy from soul reap.)
Koles Gauntlet ( mainly for the +30 HP to help counter the major soul reaping rune. )

Skills

Animate Bone Fiends
Animate Bone Horrors
Blood of the master
Verata's Sacrifice
Offering of blood
Heal Area
Death Nova or Putrid Explosion or Heal party ( personally like death nova, nothing like exploding pets

)
Res sig or Rebirth

So to run a N/R minion master i guess u could supplement Heal area for say healing spring tho personally if u want to be a true minion master N/Mo is definately the way to go imo.

sigried · Mar 03, 2006, 04:56 PM // 16:56

OK got the point but one thing i lie from the ranger is that you get to travel with your pet but ill try for now before i ascend my necro/ranger ill get the healing spirng which is about the same energy restore as the heal area and since i dont actually need rebirth ill use my pet mena while.

kaldak · Mar 06, 2006, 04:28 AM // 04:28

i wouldnt follow that build too closely...

using major runes is generally less effective than minor or sup, and its quite dangerous to have a mm with lowered hit points. i usually stick to just the sup death rune.

and using offering of blood without points in blood? thats completely a waste of your time and health. you'll net 3 energy every time you cast it...

i prefer healing spring to heal area. its not vastly superior, but it works better for me. it heals more, and does it over time which can keep minions health topped off for 10 seconds even if VS isnt running.

also serpent's quickness is effective in reducing recharge times on your summons and VS.

troll urgent can also make a good self heal and winnowing is great to bring along if you dont have a ranger to do so for you

i prefer n/r to n/mo, though alot of people feel the opposite way. for me it is way more effective and i'm not sinking a large amount of my points into an attribute that will effect only a single skill on my bar. suffice to say its at least worth trying, and is viable. i would not suggest bringing a pet though... you cant afford that 8 second down time in the middle of battle. you need to be summoning pretty much nonstop once things get going

OMFGimCUTE · Mar 06, 2006, 05:16 AM // 05:16

i have a MM myself, u dont need to be N/R or N/Mo even tho i perfer N/R but just use necro primery and thats all. i dont use and secondary MM is good with only necro skills.

bobrath · Mar 06, 2006, 04:38 PM // 16:38

I run a N/R and have been kicked from a fair number of farming runs by group leaders thinking that N/Mo was the only real build...

When I do manage to convince them to broaden their minds, they realize that the secondary is really truly that - secondary to your primary skills. My MM skill bar has 1 slot I'll switch out to a non-necro skill:

Vamp Gaze
Shadow Strike
Death Nova (*)
Blood of the Master
Verata's Sacrifice
Offering of Blood
Animate Bone Horror
Animate Bone Fiend

The first two are there to allow me to heal myself a bit AND actually do something when there aren't corpses to be exploited or minions to manage. I will switch them out on rare occasions - strip enchantment being a great example of one switch.

The last five are standard MM skills (no need to explain I hope). And yes, I have no way of resurrecting. I depend on Monks and the R/Mo that make up B/P groups to handle that. If you die, I'm more concerned with using your corpse!

Death Nova is hugely useful in Tombs. Drop it on all the Pets and your minions. Suddenly the Dryders massive AoE attacks can help you. (yes you lose minions, but they take the dryders and other beasties out with them). I'll swap out to Winnowing if I'm running SF farming as it makes my army even more damaging.

Healing Spring is a great heal for your army - but maybe Heal Area can do better...

Heal Area - Heal yourself and all nearby creatures for 30-150 points. Casting time 1 sec. Recharge 5 secs. Mana Cost of 10.
Healing Spring - For 10 seconds, all allies in the area are healed for 15-51 Health every 2 seconds. This action is easily interrupted. Casting time 2 secs. Recharge 20 secs. Mana Cost of 10.

Area can heal enemies, Spring won't.
I'm not sure which covers more area between Area and Spring cause I don't know the diff between "in the area" and "nearby".
Healing over time:
Start Casting (I'm going to show the max here and assume casting occurs asap after recharge)
1 sec - HA drops 150 healing. (HA 150 - HS 0)
2 sec - HS drops 51 healing. (HA 150 - HS 51)
4 sec - HS drops 51 healing. (HA 150 - HS 102)
6 sec - HS drops 51 healing. (HA 150 - HS 153)
7 sec - HA drops 150 healing. (HA 300 - HS 153)
8 sec - HS drops 51 healing. (HA 300 - HS 204)
10 sec - HS drops 51 healing. (HA 300 - HS 255)
13 sec - HA drops 150 healing (HA 450 - HS 255)
19 sec - HA drops 150 healing (HA 500 - HS 255)
24 sec - HS can be done casting again - total nrg spent before this cast 10 mana
25 sec - HA can be done casting again - total nrg spent before this cast 40 mana

If you go with the min numbers then its HA 120 - HS 65. (all numbers pulled from the GuildwarsGuru skill listing)

So the spamability of HA lends itself to more healing over time, but at the expense of 30 more mana and more attention to casting. To me the additional nrg cost is the more important factor only because most MMs only have to worry about healing in between battles during the time other classes are recharging. The fire and forget part of Spring can be nice. Both can keep you ahead of minion degen long enough to get your VS off, HA requires a bit more casting awareness and energy management.

Is Heal Area a "better" spell for MMs? If you're willing to trade off the 30 extra mana for double the healing output, I guess it is. If on the other hand you care more about killing the other team faster, then the R secondary gives you some great spirits and buffs to make your minions more effective and also gives you a healing spell that's a good substitute for Heal Area.

I like having my secondary provide me with a bit more flexibility. As a N/R, I can adjust my build to take advantage of my party members. As a N/Mo, my choices are far more limited (aside from having a rez skill).

Contessa · Mar 07, 2006, 08:16 PM // 20:16

This is my PvE build

I'm so glad there are other N/R minion masters out there. I've experienced some descrimination for not running a standard N/M build, but other people in PUGs have loved it. I use my ranger skills to have a pet and use him for interupts and/or to gain energy with ferocious strike. Energizing Wind seems like a nice skill, but I haven't used it. I use disrupting lunge to sometimes stop other necros from stealing my corpses or just to interupt other casters. It's not a typical build, but it's the most fun I've had with any of my characters. It's great to have a zoo.

By the way, this is my first post on this form, so hello!

My general build:
Death: 16
Soul Reaping: 9-11
Beast Mastery: 9-11

Charm animal
Comfort animal
Feral lunge, or Ferocious strike or
Call of haste or Disrupting Lunge (Choose any 2 for your pet)
Animate bone minions
Verata's sacrifice
Deathly chill, Deathly swarm, Rotting flesh (depends on location)
Wild slot: Bone fiends, taste of death, plague touch (depends on location)

I use two weapon set. One with about 70 energy and the other 44. I can go into more detail about that, but the since this is about builds, I'll just focus on my spells.

I use my pet and one or two offensive skills to start my army. In battle I either raise minions, heal minions or both (depends on the the situation). I'm ok with some minions dieing during battle. Since I'm using raise minions (2 minions per corpse), energy isn't a problem with soul reaping. With a huge shield of minions, healing myself doesn't become a huge issue.

It works for me, please don't flame me.

draxynnic · Mar 08, 2006, 12:38 AM // 00:38

I'm fairly certain 'in the area' is a larger area than 'nearby'

Try visiting the Isle of the Nameless - there are a couple of spots there where you have a series of labelled concentric rings showing the sizes of the various areas.

Lady Callingwell · Mar 08, 2006, 09:21 AM // 09:21

Animate bone fiend
Verratta's Sacrifice
Offering of Blood
Serpent's Quickness
Favorable Winds
Winnowing
Healing Spring
Res Signet

SR 2+1
Blood 9+1
Death 12+4
MM 5
WS 8

This build works perfectly well, capable of keeping 16-20 fiends alive and also adding 10 bonus damage per fiend. OoB is used to assure a continuous fiend supply so you wont have to wait for energy regain therewith causing fiend degen to increase.

Edit: And reactions I had from ppl while I was running this build include "I never want a N/Mo MM any more, just give me a N/R"

Contessa · Mar 08, 2006, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Callingwell

Animate bone fiend
Verratta's Sacrifice
Offering of Blood
Serpent's Quickness
Favorable Winds
Winnowing
Healing Spring
Res Signet

SR 2+1
Blood 9+1
Death 12+4
MM 5
WS 8

This build works perfectly well, capable of keeping 16-20 fiends alive and also adding 10 bonus damage per fiend. OoB is used to assure a continuous fiend supply so you wont have to wait for energy regain therewith causing fiend degen to increase.

Edit: And reactions I had from ppl while I was running this build include "I never want a N/Mo MM any more, just give me a N/R"

Thanks so much for posting this. I have to try it.

sigried · Mar 08, 2006, 10:15 PM // 22:15

thanks alot for the replies im gona try all posibilities to test which i like best

Carinae · Mar 08, 2006, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobrath

Start Casting (I'm going to show the max here and assume casting occurs asap after recharge)
1 sec - HA drops 150 healing. (HA 150 - HS 0)
2 sec - HS drops 51 healing. (HA 150 - HS 51)
4 sec - HS drops 51 healing. (HA 150 - HS 102)
6 sec - HS drops 51 healing. (HA 150 - HS 153)
7 sec - HA drops 150 healing. (HA 300 - HS 153)
8 sec - HS drops 51 healing. (HA 300 - HS 204)
10 sec - HS drops 51 healing. (HA 300 - HS 255)
13 sec - HA drops 150 healing (HA 450 - HS 255)
19 sec - HA drops 150 healing (HA 500 - HS 255)
24 sec - HS can be done casting again - total nrg spent before this cast 10 mana
25 sec - HA can be done casting again - total nrg spent before this cast 40 mana

Nice breakdown.

I want to point out that healing minions is one aspect of HA. Another side of the coin is that HA is a self-heal, canceling sacrifices and damage. It's true that you don't always use HA while in battle, but if you do it's nearly always as a self-heal. From that perspective HA is far better than HS, because of it's faster cast and recharge....and instant healing effect.

As far as healing the enemy, well, the consequences of a MM dying are WORSE than healing one or two enemies.

xiv · Mar 08, 2006, 10:35 PM // 22:35

well when i run mm i find necro ele isbest with renewal for the self heal part i take taste of death which is awesome i sacrifice 1 minion and i git 10 extra energy and 420 health. as for what i use i use morgiff scepter and +15 energy -1 regen offhand with the +12 energy added to that and i nvr have energy troubles and i can git 20+ minions goin without ne problem. as for the heal area it SUCKS it makes minions die faster so all u really need is 15 soul reaping 16 death magic and then use glyph of renewal then vert sac and then rinse an repeat everytime renewal recharges which is 15 seconds. much mroe affective than necro monk. they key to good mm requires high soul reap for energy management. so i use sup soul reap adn sup death magic and i use the soul reap on blood stained boots and death magic on death magic scar pattern on head. then when i wanan switch to anew build all i do is put my scar pattern boots on and then change to te scar head pattern i need (i have all 4) its much easier than deciding on which sup rune u wanan use. necro ranger is alright but i dun't recommend it when necro ele or monk is much more affetive.

Carinae · Mar 08, 2006, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by xiv

as for the heal area it SUCKS it makes minions die faster

No it doesn't. Stop spreading silly rumors.

As for N/E (sigh), just because it works doesn't mean there isn't something better.

kaldak · Mar 09, 2006, 09:52 AM // 09:52

i seem to remember reading that fav winds will not effect fiends...does anyone know for sure?

sigried · Mar 09, 2006, 07:41 PM // 19:41

so i tried call of the haste and im not sure does it afect the Minions too because i have seen preaty good improvemnt in atacks

Lady Callingwell · Mar 09, 2006, 07:56 PM // 19:56

@ kaldak, the last thing I heard read was that it does. Never bothered testing it extensively but I might do so later 2day.

@ sigried CoH does not affect minions, just pets as stated in the description